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Rudolph Etzenhouser
(1856-1918)
From Palmyra to Independence
(Independence: Ensign Pub., 1894)
pp. 1-150   |  pp. 151-300   |  pp. 301-445

  • p. 301  Chapter I     p. 322  Chapter II
  • p. 334  Chapter III     p. 379  Chapter IV
  • p. 386  Chapter V     p. 404  Chapter VI
  • p. 411  Chapter VII     p. 429  Index & Notes

  • transcriber's comments

    •

    See also  1903 Etzenhouser Article   |   1910 Etzenhouser Engravings

     

    [ 301 ]





    P A R T   III.
    _____

    COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.
    _____

    Joseph  Smith  Exonerated.
    _____

    CHAPTER I.

    CHICAGO TIMES EDITORIAL -- JOSIAH QUINCY
    AND DR. FOSTER SPEAK -- DANITES
    DENOUNCED BY JOSEPH SMITH.

    JOSEPH SMITH, FOUNDER OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS.

    The Chicago Times of February 20th, 1889, said editorially: "Do people in general want to know the truth about Joseph Smith, the founder of the sect which styles itself the 'Latter Day Saints,' and the origin of the book which they claim supplements the Old and New Testaments? Apparently they do not * * * It is fair to presume that few of these persons ever read any of the publications of the 'Saints,' or ever attended any of their meetings."


     



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    Time is on its eternal march must yet exonerate Joseph Smith as it did Wesley who was also calumniated in his day by all classes.

    HOW WESLEY WAS USED IN HIS DAY!

    "March 2 1891, is the centenary of the death of John Wesley...


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            303.


    way even into private rooms...


     



    304.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    Jesuit, and the dictatorial authority of a Pope;' and described him as 'the most rancorous hater of the gospel system that ever appeared in England.' Bishop Lavington of Exeter, denounced the Methodists as a dangerous and presumptuous sect, animated with an enthusiastic and fanatical spirit, and said that they were 'either innocent madmen or infamous cheats.'" -- Archdeacon Farrar, D. D., in The Contemporary Review.
     

    JOSEPH SMITH AT NAUVOO.

    From figures of the past, From the leaves of old journals, page 376, by Josiah Quincy, Class of Harvard College, 1821. published at Boston, Massachusetts, by Messrs. Roberts Brothers, 1883.

    It is by no means improbable that some future textbook, for the use of generations yet unborn, will contain a question something like this: What historical American of the nineteenth century has exerted the most powerful influence upon the destinies of his countrymen? And it is by no means impossible that the answer to that interrogatory may be thus written: Joseph Smith, the Mormon prophet. And the reply, absurd as it doubtless seems to most men now living, may be an obvious commonplace to their descendants. History deals in surprises and paradoxes quite as startling as this. The man who established a religion in this age of free debate, who was and is today accepted by hundreds of thousands as a direct emissary from the Most High, -- such a rare human being is not to be disposed of by pelting his memory with unsavory epithets. Fanatic, impostor, charlatan, he may have been; but these hard names furnish no solution to the problem he presents to us. Fanatics and impostors are


     



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    living and dying every day, and their memory is buried with them; but the wonderful influence which this founder of a religion exerted and still exerts throws him into relief before us, not as a rogue to be criminated, but as a phenomenon to be explained. * * *

    Joseph Smith, claiming to be an inspired teacher, faced adversity such as few men have been called to meet, enjoyed a brief season of prosperity such as few men have ever attained, and, finally, forty-three days after I saw him, went cheerfully to a martyr's death.

    A fine-looking man is what the passer-by would instinctively have murmured upon meeting the remarkable individual who had fashioned the mould which was to shape the feelings of so many thousands of his fellow-mortals. But Smith was more than this, and one could not resist the impression that capacity and resource were natural to his stalwart person. I have already mentioned the resemblance he bore to Elisha R. Potter, of Rhode Island, whom I met in Washington in 1826. The likeness was not such as would be recognized in a picture, but rather one that would be felt in a grave emergency. Of all men I have met, these two seemed best endowed with that kingly faculty which directs, as by intrinsic right, the feeble or confused souls who are looking for guidance. * * *

    "On the right hand, as we entered the house, was a small and very comfortless-looking bar-room; all the more comfortless, perchance, from its being a dry bar-room, as no spirituous liquors were permitted at Nauvoo. * * *

    "Polygamy, it must be remembered, formed no part of the alleged revelations upon which the social life at Nauvoo was based."


     



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    R. D. FOSTER'S TESTIMONY.

    "LODA, Ill., Feb. 14th, 1874.     

    "Joseph Smith President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Plano, Illinois.

    "DEAR SIR: -- Accept my sincere thanks for the favors that came to hand this day, by mail, namely, a copy of the Book of Mormon and a copy of Parley P. Pratt's Voice of Warning, as well as your very welcome letter with your photograph enclosed; the same now occupies a place in my daughter's album and is very highly appreciated. Next in order comes many familiar names that you enumerate as co-workers in advancing the cause of gospel truth. While reading them over I was carried back some thirty odd years, and many incidents of, or about that period were made vivid in my memory; scenes that occurred when you was quite a little boy and I was in the prime of manhood. One particular circumstance I will mention, as it appears to me to be incontrovertible evidence of the fact that your father was no false pretender, but that he was a true prophet of the living God. I was practicing my profession in Kingston, Illinois, in the year 1837, and boarding with a Benjamin S. Wilber, a member of the Latter Day Saints' Church; his wife was also a member, and a most excellent little lady and very intelligent. In the fall of this year President Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Judge Elias Higbee and Porter Rockwell, came to this house on their way to the city of Washington, in accordance with a revelation given to the church at Commerce, (afterwards Nauvoo), through Joseph Smith, the prophet, to lay their grievances before the President of the United States,(Martin Van Buren), for the sufferings they underwent in Missouri, from


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            307.


    which state the church had been driven by mob law, after many of them had been inhumanely murdered, and others driven from the lands they had purchased of the United States government in that state. On the arrival of this company at Mr. Wilber's I was told by Joseph Smith, the prophet, that if I was willing to obey the will of God, and, be obedient to his commandments, I must quit my practice and start the next day with them to the city of Washington. * * *

    "I have many incidents, dottings and jottings, taken during our journey, one of which I will mention. After we got to Dayton, Ohio, we left our horses in care of a brother in the church, and proceeded by stage, part of us; and the same coach that conveyed us over the Allegheny Mountains also had on board, as passengers, Senator Aaron of Missouri, and a Mr. Ingersol, a member of congress, from New Jersey or Pennsylvania, I forget which and at the top of the mountain called Cumberland Ridge, the driver left the stage and his four horses drinking at the trough in the road, while he went into the tavern to take what is very common to stage drivers, a glass of spirits. While he was gone the horses took fright and ran away with the coach and passengers. There was also in the coach a lady with a small child, who was terribly frightened. Some of the passengers leaped from the coach, but in doing so none escaped more or less injury, as the horses were running at a fearful speed, and it was down the side of a very steep mountain. The woman was about to throw out the child, and said she intended to jump out herself, as she felt sure all would be dashed to pieces that remained, as there was quite a curve in the road, and on one side the mountain loomed up hundreds


     



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    of feet above the horses, and the other side was a deep chasm or ravine...


     



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    were both traveling incog., as if their real names had been made public on the way, especially that of Mr. Smith, we should have been very much annoyed by the inquisitive. Little did those gentlemen think that Joseph Smith was the identical man that was instrumental in the hands of God in saving that coach load of human beings from a terrible death.

    "We made our first stop at Gadsby's hotel, in Washington City. * * *

    "We staid there during the winter of 1839 and 1840 to testify before committees and attend to all we could in the premises and in the meantime to preach and talk to the heads of the nation upon the mission and calling of Mr. Smith in this latter day. Curiosity was on tip-toe, until many believed, and some were baptized and went back to Nauvoo, or Commerce, as it was then called.

    "Benjamin Winchester and Elder Barnes were preaching at that time in Philadelphia, and Mr. Smith and Mr. Higbee went there and did some preaching, leaving myself in the city of Washington to take care of Mr. Rigdon, and also to wait upon every preacher in the city, irrespective of his church organization, and particularly to declare unto them the tidings of the Latter Day Saints, committed to this generation through Joseph Smith, Jr., and to warn them against the danger consequent upon its rejection. I commenced my duties as soon as I had any time, and called upon all the leaders of the different organizations of religion in the city. As a general thing I was pretty well received and very kindly treated. * * * I thought that my report would be uniform;y favorable, but I had one ore visit to make; that was to Geo. C. Cookman, the chief preacher and elder of the other branch of the Methodist


     



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    Church; and he was then chaplain of the United States Senate. On my introduction he was rigid as marble and cold as an icicle. He was proud, tonguey and arrogant in the extreme. * * * I begged him to take time and consider the matter; not to decide hastily; that it was unwise to give a decision until both sides were fairly and fully before him. I asked him for his church, and told him that either Mr. Smith or Mr. Rigdon would be glad to illustrate the subject any time before him and his congregation. He said that my impudence could only be attributed to one of two causes, and he was constrained to believe it was not from ignorance, but was intended as an insult; that he would neither let me have his church nor hear anything further on the subject, and should take good care to warn his brethren and sisters against listening to any such blasphemy. With this he opened his library door, conducted me to the outer hall, and refused to give me his hand. I reported this to Mr. Rigdon, and wrote to Philadelphia to Mr. Smith the result of my labors. On the following Sunday this same George C. Cookman preached in his church, and told some strange tales; that he had had an interview with Joe Smith, that arch impostor, and that the doctrines he taught were very irreligious and inconsistent with Bible truth; that he, Smith did not believe in the Bible, but had got a mew one, dug up in Palmyra, New York; and that it was nothing but an irreligious romance, and that Smith had obtained it from the widow of one Spaulding, who wrote it for his own amusement. I wrote this to Mr. Smith, and he said there must be some preaching in Washington to counteract these statements, as he was sure God had some people in that city. We first got an upper room


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            311.


    of an engine house to speak in, but half, no, not a quarter of the people could get in. We had speaking then in the open air, on Pennsylvania Avenue, near that place, and gave out that there would be further services as soon as a room could be obtained. Before night some people secured the use of Carusi's saloon, one of the largest and most comfortable rooms in the city, outside the capital building, and at night there was held service. A great many of the members of Congress and the heads of departments were present, as well as Martin Van Buren. We, of the committee from Illinois, all took the speaker's desk. And when near the close, who should come into the hall but Joseph Smith himself. We speedily got him on the stand, and I had the honor of introducing him to that vast audience. He had just come in on the train from Philadelphia, and was tired, but he arose by the invitation of many who called for him, and on that occasion he uttered a prophecy, one of the most wonderful predictions of his life. He advanced to the statements made by this George C. Cookman, declaring them to be willfully and wickedly false, and that if he, Cookman, did not take it back and acknowledge that he had dealt falsely of him, his people, and his own congregation, also that he must turn and preach the truth and quit deceiving the people with fables, he should be cut off from the face of the earth, both he and his posterity. And he said that this should be so plainly manifest that all should know it. At this, many gentlemen took out of their pockets their tablets and began to take notes of the prophecy; and Mr. Smith noticing them, 'Yes,' said he, 'write it on your tablets; write it in a book; write it in your memory; for as sure as God ever spoke


     



    312.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    by my mouth, all these things shall come to pass.'

    "Henry Clay, Felix Grundy, Tom Benton, John Q. Adams and many other celebrated characters were present at this time. Now, instead of Cookman doing according to justice and truth, he became more virulent than ever, and laid all the obstacles in our way the he could during our stay in the city. The matter appeared to be forgotten by many, and I thought often upon the subject, having taken notes also. Soon after this there was an extraordinary excitement in the religious world, and they appointed a conference of all orthodox religions to assemble in England, at a certain time, to adopt measures of harmony between all the sects; the United States were invited and accepted a part in these proceedings to break down the partition wall that separated the various churches. George C. Cookman was elected or appointed as a delegate for the District of Columbia to represent his views on the subject, standing, as he did, at the very head of the church, and Chaplain of the United States Senate. Now he, being an Englishman by birth, and his family in suitable circumstances for a pleasure trip, at the appointed time he (Cookman) thought it would be very pleasant to take his whole family with him, and this he did. Both he, his wife, and all his children went on board the steamship 'President,' and neither the ship nor a soul is left to tell what was their sad end. But the prophecy is fulfilled to the letter, and the words uttered on that occasion have never been forgotten by me, nor I presume by hundreds of others. Had Cookman gone alone, it might be charged to chance, but why was it that his whole family were suddenly cut off, both root and branch!


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            313.


    "This sir, is one of many wonderful evidences that Joseph Smith was as much a prophet as Jonah, who foretold the destruction of Nineveh; or Nahum, who prophesied concerning the present locomotion for traveling; both of them took centuries and one of them thousands of years for their fulfillment, but the prophecy by Joseph Smith on George C. Cookman has been literally fulfilled in the shortest possible period; and that too in its fullness, beyond the possibility of question from any source. * * *

    "I will tell you also another prophecy that Joseph Smith uttered in my presence, that has been proved true. This was in relation to Stephen A. Douglas. He said he was a giant in intellect, but a dwarf in stature, that he would yet run for President of the United States, but that he would never reach that station; that he would occupy a conspicuous place in the counsels of the nation, and have multitudes of admiring friends; and that in his place he would introduce and carry out some of the most gigantic measures in the history of the nation. This was said when Douglas was Judge in that district of Illinois, and before he ever went to Congress. Has it not been fulfilled? Did he not get Andrew Jackson's fine remitted by law, a thing that was by all considered impossible? Did he not introduce the bills for the covering of Illinois with railroads, without one cent's expense to the general government? Under his management, were not the Illinois bonds raised from a condition nearly worthless to a value nearly par with currency? Did he not rule in and through the State of Illinois, work and carry out its destiny for twenty consecutive years, more than any and all other men together? Was he not always one of


     



    314.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    the greatest men in the Senate? Did he not do more for the line of compromise on slavery than any other one man? Did he not say, 'and cursed be the ruthless hand that attempts to remove it?' Did he not run for President and get defeated? Did he not take the most active part in removing or breaking down that line of compromise? Let the history of Kansas and Nebraska tell the story! Did he not fulfill his destiny, and at last, on his dying bed, bequeath his children to his country, and counsel them to obey the laws and the constitution? Did he not utter these memorable words at the commencement of the rebellion, 'That there were only two parties in all the land; the one called Patriots, the other Traitors?' Was it not true? Did he not throw his adhesion to A. Lincoln at the time of deep trouble? And does he not now occupy an honored spot in the memory of his many friends, and a sacred spot in his own loved city of Chicago? Yes, this prophecy has been literally fulfilled in my day, and I bear testimony to its truth, when compared with history. * * *

    "I know something about some of the leaders at Salt Lake City, and to my sorrow too, as many of them forgot to settle claims that I still hold against them. I and my whole family were driven from the city, (of Nauvoo, Author.) my property confiscated, and thousands, yes, tens of thousands of dollars worth of my property was taken and sold, and I was defrauded out of the whole by wicked and corrupt men, aided by the head men that now live in Salt Lake City. The records of my property were carried away, and never could be obtained, and I was reduced from affluence and wealth to poverty by their means. And they claim to have done all these things in obedience to the commands and will of God.


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            315.


    "With consideration of very kind regards, I am, sir, yours for the truth.

    "ROBERT D. FOSTER."     

    From Saints' Herald, April 15th, 1875.

    Joseph Smith, speaking of his angel visitor at the time of his early experience, said...



    The remainder of this chapter has not yet been transcribed.



     



    316.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    being warm with the love of God..


     



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    would take the earth for God...


     



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    States, and the Southern States...


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            319.


    "1. Was Joseph Smith, the Mormon leader, really a prophet...


     



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    "When a knowledge of Avard's rascality came to...


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            321.


    injury have been taught by Dr. Avard...



     

    [ 322 ]







    CHAPTER II.

    COL. PITCHER AND GEN. DONIPHAN SPEAK
    OF TIMES AND SCENES IN MISSOURI
    EXPULSION DOCUMENT OF
    1833 AND 1838.

    MORMON HISTORY.

    "Of the many pioneer citizens of Jackson county, Missouri. who were present and took part in the Mormon difficulties of the memorable year of 1833, but few now live. It is, however, fortunate for the historian that a few yet remain to relate the story of the events of those troublous times, barely half a century ago, as they occurred, without prejudice. Among the very few of the pioneers still living is Col. Thomas Pitcher, of Independence, who has been a citizen of Jackson county for most fifty-five years, and who, during the troubles of 1833, was a colonel of the state militia, and took a prominent part in all of the events of the early history of the country. Knowing these facts, a Journal representative at Independence was sent to Col. Pitcher to interview him upon the Mormon history of Jackson county. After learning the object of the visit, the colonel lighted his pipe and related the following facts: I came to Jackson county, in the month of November, 1826, and located four miles southwest of Independence. The Mormon immigration to the country commenced


     



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    in the fall of 1830, and continued until the autumn of 1832. During the first two years of their residence in the county, they and the citizens got along together very peacebly, and no one had any thought of a difficulty until the spring of 1833. In the latter part of 1831 the Mormons established a newspaper in Independence, called the 'Morning and Evening Star,' which was edited by one W. W. Phelps. This paper published the so-called revelations of Joseph Smith and other leading elders of the church, and other doctrines of their religion. The Mormons, as a rule, were an ignorant and a fanatical people, though there were some very intelligent men among them. The troubles of 1833, which led to their expulsion from the county, were originated by these fanatics making boasts that they intended to possess the entire county, saying that God had promised it to them and they were going to have it. This of course caused ill feeling toward them, which continued to grow more and more bitter, until the final uprising took place. One Saturday, about the middle of July, 1833, a citizens' meeting was held at the Court House in Independence, to declare what was to be done with the Mormons who were pouring into the county, and to devise some means to put a stop to their seditious boasts as to what they proposed to do, etc. This meeting determined to destroy the Mormon printing office, located a short distance south of where Chrisman & Sawyer's bank building now stands, which determination was carried into effect that afternoon.

    "'Did the citizens give the Mormons any notice of what they intended to do?'

    "'No, I don't think they gave them any notice whatever, but when they had determined upon destroying


     



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    the printing office, they immediately proceeded to do it.'

    "'Did the Mormons make any resistance?'

    "'No, they did not. Some of them tried to argue the case, but it was of no avail. The printing office was a two story brick building, and I don't think its destruction occupied over an hour.'

    "'How many citizens were engaged in the affair?'

    "'I suppose there must have been over a hundred, altogether.'

    "'Was there any personal violence or other indignities offered the Mormons at that time?'

    "'Nothing of any particular consequence. Several were knocked down, but as a general thing the Mormons had sufficient discretion to keep out of the way.' * * *

    "'Were the Mormons allowed to dispose of their lands and other property before they left the county?'

    "'No, they did not have time, but afterwards, a great many came back and disposed of their lands without molestation.'

    "'Did they own much property in the county?'

    "'Yes, they owned a large amount of land all over Independence.' * * *

    "'Do you think, colonel, that the slavery question had anything to do with the difficulties with the Mormons?'

    "'No, I don't think that matter had anything to do with it. The Mormons, it is true, were northern and eastern people, and "free soilers." but they did not interfere with the negroes and we did not care whether they owned slaves or not.' * * *


     



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    "Did the Mormons practice polygamy or advocate polygamy while in Jackson county?'

    "'No, they did not. Polygamy, at that time, had not been heard of.' -- Kansas City Journal." -- Herald, June 15, 1881.
     

    "There is probably no man in Western Missouri who is better acquainted with the various causes of the difficulties between the citizens of Jackson and Caldwell counties and the Mormons during the years of 1833 and 1838, than Gen. Alexander W. Doniphan, then a resident of Clay county, but now of Richmond, Ray county, Missouri, and there is, perhaps, no one who took such an active part in the events of those years who can now look back and relate the history of these troubles as dispassionately as he can. In view of these facts a representative of the Journal called upon Gen. Doniphan at his rooms at the Hudgins' House at Richmond, for the purpose of interviewing him upon the subject. The general, after learning the object of the visit, seemed very willing to communicate all he knew in regard to the history of the Mormon troubles, and after a few introductory remarks, related the following:

    "'I came to Missouri in 1830, and located in Lexington, where I lived until April, 1833, when I removed to Liberty, Clay county. The Mormons came to Jackson county in 1830, and I met Oliver Cowdery, John Whitmer and Christian Whitmer, three of the Elders, in Independence, during the spring of 1831. Peter Whitmer was a tailor and I employed him to make me a suit of clothes.'

    "'What kind of people were the Mormons?'

    "'They were northern people, who, on account of their declining to own slaves and their denunciation of


     



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    the system of slavery, were termed "free soilers." The majority of them were intelligent, industrious and law abiding citizens, but there were some ignorant, simple minded fanatics among them, whom the prophet said would steal.' * * * 'Governor Boggs used the expression "that the Mormons leave the state or be exterminated," whereas this order was entirely illegal. I paid no attention to it. In my report to Gov. Boggs I stated to him that I had disregarded that part of his order, as the age of extermination was over, and if I attempted to remove them to some other state, it would cause additional trouble. The Mormons commenced immediately after this to move to Nauvoo, Illinois, and I know nothing further about them. While the Mormons resided in Clay county, they were a peaceable, sober, industrious and law-abiding people, and during their stay with us not one was ever accused of a crime of any kind.'

    "Gen. Doniphan is now in his seventy-third year, but is still hale and hearty. He is a man of fine appearance and intellect, and is well known and highly respected all over the State. He has resided in Richmond during the past several years. His statements as given above may be relied upon as strictly the truth in every particular. There are a few old citizens still living near Independence who were in this county during the troubles of 1833, whose statements will be given in the near future. -- Kansas City Journal." -- Herald, July 1, 1881.

    Not a crime -- not even a personal misdemeanor -- of any kind could the mob find to charge the Saints with.

    An account from the Western Monitor, of Fayette, Missouri, the 2d of August, 1833. In this will be


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            327.


    seen the alleged grounds and all the reasons the mob could trump up in justification of their barbarous doing:

    :MORMONISM!

    "At a meeting of the citizens of Jackson county, Missouri, called for the purpose of adopting measures to rid themselves of the sect of fanatics, called Mormons, held at Independence on the 20th day of July, 1833; which meeting was composed of gentlemen from every part of the county, there being present between four and five hundred persons.

    "The meeting was organized by calling Colonel Richard Simpson to the chair, and appointing James H. Flournoy and Col. Samuel D. Lucas, secretaries. It was resolved that a committee of seven be appointed to report an address to the public, in relation to the object of this meeting; and the chair named the following gentleman, to wit: Russell Hicks Esq., Robert Johnson, Henry Chiles Esq., Colonel James Hambright, Thomas Hudspeth, Joel F. Chiles, and James M. Hunter. The meeting then adjourned; and convened again, when Robert Johnson, the chairman of said committee, submitted for the consideration of the meeting, the following address, &c.:

    "This meeting, professing to act not from the excitement of the moment, but under a deep and abiding conviction, that the occasion is one that calls for cool deliberation, as well as energetic action, deem it proper to lay before the public an expose of our peculiar situation, in regard to this singular sect of pretended christians, and a solemn declaration of our unalterable determination to amend it.

    "The evil is one that no one could have foreseen,


     



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    and is therefore unprovided for by the laws, and the delays incident to legislation, would put the mischief beyond remedy.

    "But little more than two years ago, some two or three of this people made their appearance in the Upper Missouri, and they now number some twelve hundred souls in this county; and each successive autumn and spring pours forth its swarm among us, with a gradual falling of the character of those who compose them; until it seems that those communities from which they come, were flooding us with the very dregs of their composition. Elevated as they mostly are, but little above the condition of our blacks either in regard to property or education; they have become a subject of much anxiety on that part, serious and well grounded complaints having been already made of their corrupting influence on our slaves.

    "We are daily told, and not by the ignorant alone, but by all classes of them, that we, (the Gentiles,) of this county are to be cut off, and our lands appropriated by them for inheritances. Whether this is to be accomplished by the hand of the destroying angel, the judgments of God, or the arm of power, they are not fully agreed among themselves.

    "Some recent remarks in the Evening and Morning Star, their organ in this place, by their tendency to moderate such hopes and repress such desires, show plainly that many of this deluded and infatuated people have been taught to believe that our lands were to be won from us by the sword. From this same Star we learn that for want of more honest or commendable employment, many of their society are now preaching through the states of New York, Ohio, and Illinois, and


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            329.


    that their numbers are increased beyond every rational calculation; all of whom are required as soon as convenient, to come up to Zion, which name they have thought proper to confer on our little village. Most of those who have already come, are characterized by the profoundest ignorance, the grossest superstition, and the most abject poverty.

    "Indeed, it is a subject of regret by the 'Star' itself, that they have come not only to lay an inheritance, which means some fifteen acres of wild land for each family, but destitute of the means of procuring bread and meat. When we reflect on the extensive field in which the sect is operating, and that there exists in every country a leaven of superstition that embraces with avidity, notions the most extravagant and unheard of, and that whatever can be gleaned by them from the perils of vice, and the abodes of ignorance, it is to be cast like a waif into our social circle, it requires no gift of prophecy to tell that the day is not far distant when the civil government of the country will be in their hands. When the sheriff, the justices, and the county judges will be Mormons, or persons wishing to court their favor from motives of interest or ambition.

    "What would be the fate of our lives and property, in the hands of jurors and witnesses, who do not blush to declare, and would not upon occasion hesitate to swear that they have wrought miracles, and have been the subjects of miraculous and supernatural cures; have conversations with God and his angels, and possess and exercise the gifts of divination and of unknown tongues, and fired with the prospect of obtaining inheritances without money and without price, may be better imagined than described. * * *


     



    330.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "One of the means resorted to by them, in order to drive us to emigrate, is an indirect invitation to the free brethren of color in Illinois, to come up, like the rest, to the land of Zion.-True, they say this was not intended to invite, but to prevent their emigration; but this weak attempt to quiet our apprehension, is but a poor compliment to our understandings. The article alluded to, contained an extract from our laws, and all necessary directions and cautions to be observed by colored brethren, to enable them upon their arrival here, to claim and exercise the rights of citizenship. Contemporaneous with the appearance of this article, was the expectation among the brethren here, that a considerable number of this degraded cast were only awaiting this information before they should set out on their journey. With the corrupting influence of these on our slaves, and the stench both physical and moral, that their introduction would set afloat in our social atmosphere, and the vexation that would attend the civil rule of these fanatics, it would require neither a visit from the destroying angel, nor the judgments of an offended God to render our situation here insupportable. True, it may be said, and truly no doubt, that the fate that has marked the rise and fall of Joanna Southcote and Ann Lee, will also attend the progress of Joe Smith; but this is no opiate to our fears, for when the fabric falls, the rubbish will remain.

    "Of their pretended revelations from heaven -- their personal intercourse with God and his angels -- the maladies they pretend to heal by the laying on of hands-and the contemptible gibberish with which they habitually profane the Sabbath, and which they dignify with the appellation of unknown tongues, we have nothing to say, vengeance belongs to God alone. But as to the


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            331.


    other matters set forth in this paper, we feel called on by every consideration of self preservation, good society, public morals, and the fair prospects, that if not blasted in the germ, await this young and beautiful county, at once to declare, and we do hereby most solemnly declare:

    "That no Mormon shall in future move and settle in this county.

    "That those now here, who shall give a definite pledge of their intention within a reasonable time to remove out of the county, shall be allowed to remain unmolested until they have sufficient time to sell their property and close their business without any material sacrifice.

    "That the editor of the 'Star' be required forthwith to close his office, and discontinue the business of printing in this county; and as to all other stores and shops belonging to the sect, their owners must in every case strictly comply with the terms of the second article of this declaration, and upon failure, prompt and efficient measures will be taken to close the same.

    "That the Mormon leaders here, are required to use their influence in preventing any further emigration of their distant brethren to this county, and to counsel and advise their brethren here to comply with the above requisition.

    "That those who fail to comply with these requisitions, be referred to those of their brethren who have the gifts of divination, and of unknown tongues, to inform them of the lot that awaits them.

    "Which address being read and considered, was unanimously adopted. And thereupon it was resolved that a committee of twelve be appointed forthwith to


     



    332.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    wait on the Mormon leaders, and see that the foregoing requisitions are strictly complied with by them; and upon their refusal, that said committee do, as the organ of this county, inform them that it is our unwavering purpose and fixed determination, after the fullest considerations of all the consequences and responsibilities under which we act, to use such means as shall ensure their full and complete adoption, and that said committee, so far as may be within their power, report to this present meeting. And the following gentlemen were named as said committee:

    "Robert Johnson, James Campbell, Colonel Moses Wilson, Joel F. Chiles, Hon. Richard Fristoe, Abner F. Staples, Gan Johnson, Lewis Franklin, Russell Hicks, Esq., Colonel S. D. Lucas, Thomas Wilson, and James M. Hunter, to whom was added Colonel R. Simpson, chairman.

    "And after an adjournment of two hours, the meeting again convened, and the committee of twelve reported that they had called on Mr. Phelps, the editor of the Star, Edward Partridge, the bishop of the sect, and Mr. Gilbert, the keeper of the Lord's store house, and some others, and they declined giving any direct answer to the requisitions made of them, and wished an unreasonable time for consultation, not only with their brethren here, but in Ohio.

    "Whereupon it was unanimously resolved by the meeting, that the Star printing office should be razed to the ground, the type and press secured. Which resolution was, with the utmost order, and the least noise and disturbance possible, forthwith carried into execution, as also some other steps of a similar tendency; but no blood was spilled nor any blows inflicted. The meeting


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            333.


    then adjourned till the 23d inst., to meet again to know further concerning the determination of the Mormons.

    "Resolved that a copy of these proceedings be posted up at the post office in this place, for the information of all concerned; and that the secretaries of this meeting send copies of the same to the principal editors in the eastern and middle states for publication, that the Mormon brethren may know at a distance that the gates of Zion are closed against them-that their interests will be best promoted by remaining among these who know and appreciate their merits.
                                RICHARD SIMPSON, Chairman.

    S. D. Lucas,      }
    J. H. Flournoy, } Secretaries.
    Times and Seasons, vol. 6, pp. 832, 833, 834.

    In the official address of Major General Clark to the forces driving the Saints out of Missouri, November, 1838, he said: "It now devolves upon you to fulfill the treaty that you have entered into, the leading items of which I shall now lay before you. The first requires that your leading men be given up to be tried according to law. Second, that you deliver up your arms -- this has been attended to. The third is that you sign over your properties to defray the expenses of the war -- this you have also done. Another article yet remains for you to comply with, and that is, that you leave the state forthwith; and whatever may be your feelings concerning this, or whatever your innocence, it is nothing to me"




     

    [ 334 ]







    CHAPTER III.

    INTERVIEW AT PAINESVILLE, OHIO, AND
    LETTERS OF SAMUEL MURDOCK. --
    INTERVIEW OF CITIZENS OF
    PALMYRA, NEW YORK.

    FACTS FROM PAINESVILLE, OHIO

    "Pres. J. Smith, Plano, Illinois:

    "DEAR SIR: -- One week ago today I arrived in this city, to look after the interests of the Reorganized Church in its action in the state courts, to recover the possession of the Kirtland Temple property, in Lake county, * * *

    "So far, among the former acquaintances of Joseph Smith, Jr., I have failed to find one who will say that he was not a good citizen and an honest man. 'Joe Smith,' they say, 'was an honorable man and a gentleman in every particular, let the histories say what they may,' Now, if these things are true, history greatly belies the man and in the eternal fitness of things, time must correct the false and fickle stories and vindicate his memory. My information is derived from such men as Messrs. Quinn, Storm, Burrows and Axtell, who are foremost citizens of the country. These parties say that among some of the fanatical and ignorant there is existing great prejudice and hatred against the early Mormons, and I have found in Kirtland two persons who are terribly bitter, but neither of these had any


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            335.


    acquaintances with the parties and base their knowledge on the 'stories told.' One of these is the present pastor of the Methodist church in Kirtland, and who us now under the charge of being not only a fanatic, but crazy, and his congregation ask his removal; the other, a Mr. Harvey, of Kirtland, a member of the Baptist Church, but ignorant, can neither read nor write, and abuses his own wife for differing from him in religion, and teaches his children to abuse their mother.

    "As a sample of my testimony I give you my conversation with I. P. Axtell, Esq., a large farmer and director in the First National Bank of Painesville for many years; a man of energy and experience, and as early as 1844, a member of the Whig convention at Baltimore, which nominated Henry Clay for President. The conversation was as follows:

    "Q. -- When did you come to this country, Mr. Axtell?

    "A. -- My father moved here with his family in the year 1830. I was but a boy then.

    "Q. -- What was your father's business?

    "A. -- He was a Baptist minister, and kept a hotel then.

    "Q. -- Did you know Joseph Smith?

    "A. -- Yes, sir. I have seen him many a time; he was often at my father's house; and I with many young people, often went to Kirtland to see him and his people. I knew his father also, who at the time I knew him had charge of the Kirtland Temple. He took me with others through the Temple at one time; he appeared to be a fine old man.

    "Q. -- When did your father become acquainted with Mr. Smith?


     



    336.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "A. -- In about six weeks after he came to the county he first met him; he went out of his way one day six miles to see Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon. He said he found them in Kirtland township, they had been there but a short time and occupied a small log house. He found them to be quite intelligent men, and he said pleasant talkers, and quite free to converse upon their religious views, which at that time was known as the 'new sect.' My father always said Joseph Smith was a conscientious and upright man.

    "Q. -- Did you know any other persons of the new society?

    "A. -- O, yes, a great many. I knew Mr. Pratt very well. He was a smart and a square man all around. These men were neither knaves nor rogues; that is my opinion of them. I suppose some of them may have been. It was just as in all bodies of the kind, there will be some bad ones, but I don't know of any that were. There were a good many stories circulated about them that I knew to be false. At one time an ox was found in Kirtland township, killed and skinned; and there was a great to do about the Mormons having killed it. My brother was sheriff at the time, and with others went up to investigate the matter, and he says that there was not the least evidence which showed that the Mormons had any hand in killing the ox. Persons around, however, who hated their religion would tell that they did.

    "Q. -- How was it that people did not like them? Were they not good citizens?

    "A. -- Yes, they were as good citizens as those of any society. It was the fanatics in religion that tried to drive those men out. There were a great many conservative men,




     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            337.


    men in our county at that time who held these fanatics back, and if it had not been for this they would have gone in and killed them all. But our intelligent and honorable citizens prevented this.

    "Q. -- What about the Kirtland Bank swindle? Mr. Axtell, you are a banker, and know how that was, do you not?

    "A. -- Yes, I know about that bank; they started in Kirtland. These parties went into the banking business as a great many others in the state of Ohio and other states. They got considerable money out at first, and their enemies began to circulate all manner of stories against them and as we had a great many banks then that issued what was known as "wild cat" money, the people began to get alarmed at so many stories, and would take the other banks' issue instead of the Kirtland; and so much of it was forced in at once that the bank was not able to take it up. Had the people let those people alone there is no reason that I know of why the Kirtland bank should not have existed to this time, and on as stable a basis as other banks.

    "Q. -- Then you think it was the fault of the enemies of the bank that it failed?

    "A. -- Yes, I do; and it was not the only one that failed either by a good many, and with which Smith had nothing to do.

    "Q. -- What then do you consider the prime causes of the expulsion o the Mormons from Kirtland?

    "A. -- The ignorance and fanaticism of their accusers did it; they thought public sentiment would tolerate it and they did it. The same as Roger Williams was driven out and the witches burned in Massachusetts. My position is that no fanatic, either in


     



    338.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    religion or politics, should be permitted to hold an office of trust in this country.'

    "The above is a fair average sample of the testimony of those I have met and talked with as to the character of the early Mormons in this county, among those who lived here and knew these people. A gentleman of Willoughby, this county, suggested to me, that another reason was, their persecutors wanted their property, and said he, 'They got from them thousands of dollars worth too.' After canvassing the sentiment here of these men, I feel a good deal like Col. R. G. Ingersoll when he offered the gold for the evidence of Tom Paine's dying declarations; and I now affirm that if any of the great newspapers of the day, like the Chicago Times, Tribune, or Inter-Ocean wish to test the truth of the statements and publish the facts by a correspondent through their columns, I will undertake the task of accompanying their correspondent and if the general integrity, uprightness, honesty and patriotism, of these men are not maintained by the evidence, I will forfeit to the one so publishing one hundred dollars in gold. A letter will reach me at any time directed, Glenwood, Iowa.

    Hastily, I am very respectfully yours,                          
                               E. L. KELLEY.

    Painesville, Ohio, Feb. 19, 1880."
     

    SAMUEL MURDOCK PROTESTS.

                                                 "Elkader, Iowa, April 13th, 1893.
    "Editor Dubuque Daily Times:
    DEAR SIR: -- In your article on the Mormon Church contained in your daily issue of April 12, you say: 'It was founded by an ignorant, dissipated member of a vicious family which had a well-earned reputation


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            339.


    of being thieves and drunkards, etc.' Knowing your reputation for kindness, fairness, and sympathy, I do not believe that you would willfully or knowingly inflict a pang or a pain in the bosom of any one of our fellow creatures unless it was done without a knowledge on your part of the true facts in any case.

    "I have no more sympathy or feeling for either branch of the Mormon Church than you have, but I have a strong sympathetic feeling, and friendship for some of the Smith family who are still living, and to whom your language above quoted does great injustice, and I also know that when you hear from me a few facts, your kindness will prompt you to repair in some manner the wrong you have inflicted upon them.

    "Kirtland is situated in the country in which I was raised from youth to manhood, and at the time Smith and his Mormons settled there I was nearly a man grown, and some of them were my immediate neighbors, with whose children I was often schoolmates, and I often met their prophet, Joseph Smith, although I was not personally acquainted with him. I was, however, intimately acquainted with Mr. Cowdery, one of his scribes, and to whom I was indebted for his special kindness to me, as well as for the many lessons of instruction I received from him as my preceptor in the schoolroom, and a Mormon as he was, I shall ever cherish his memory. A more amiable, generous, kind-hearted man, I have not met since. I lived among the daily talk and excitement of the 'New Faith' or 'Latter Day Saints,' as they were sometimes called at that time. From the time they settled in my county until they left it, I must say that during all that time I never heard Joseph Smith called a thief, a drunkard or a vicious


     



    340.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    man, even by his worst enemies, and my recollection of him to this late day is that he was a tall, graceful, good looking man, continually wearing a smile on his face for everyone, and that he was a kind-hearted, generous friend and companion, and that it was his winning manners by which he succeeded more than anything else.

    "Dupe, impostor, crazy fanatic, were the common words applied to him by the Gentiles of these days, but never thief, drunkard, or vicious.

    "But all this is not where your language referred to, cuts the deepest, and inflicts the most pain, for this same Joseph Smith has a brother, the Rev. William B. Smith, who is one of the old pioneers of Clayton county, and who is still living among us, and a man whom I have known for nearly forty years, and for nearly half of that time, he has lived within a stone's throw of my swelling, and I do know that the citizens of Elkader, and those of the county generally, will sustain me when I say there is not a single stain upon his character. A kind, honest, just, and upright man is his life long reputation here.

    "He has preached to us, lectured to us, pronounced funeral services over our dead, sat upon our juries, mingled in our conversations, acted as chaplain on our national holidays, and may be seen mingling with his fellows at every reunion of both the old settlers and the G. A. R., and, although he is a strong defender of his brothers, and a devoted Mormon of the anti-polygamy sect, yet, unless he is drawn out, no one would ever know from any of his public or private talk that he was a Mormon. When the first gun was fired on Fort Sumpter he took the stump to arouse the people to the impending danger, and then shouldered his


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            341.


    ride, bid adieu to his family, enlisted in the Union army, and when the war was over came him with an honorable discharge. He has raised up in this county a bright and honorable family, all of whom are doing well, and not one of whom has ever caused him to blush, and it is here again where the language of your article cuts like a knife. Deluded as they were, there was among the Mormons the best and noblest of mankind, and where they missed it, was by admitting among them without knowing it, rascals, horse thieves, and murderers, and then defending them without investigation on the belief that the charge against them was Gentile persecution.

    "SAMUEL MURDOCK.     

    The above communication was inspired by an editorial in the Times the date stated. There were no intentions of saying anything to the detriment of those of the faith of today, and what was said of the founder of the sect was in line with the leading encyclopedias, all of which give detailed account of the work of Joseph Smith during the days of organizing the Mormon Church. -- Editor Times."
     

    CITIZENS OF PALMYRA, NEW YORK, INTERVIEWED.

    Elders W. H. and E. L. Kelley, having visited and interviewed the old settlers in and around Palmyra, New York, reported the following to the Saints' Herald, regarding what they learned about Joseph Smith and his family associations.

    "Here is where they lived, and where, the stories say, lived those who knew of their bad character, etc. We were among some of their old neighbors, all unbelievers in the faith they taught and we remembered


     



    342.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    some of the names of the parties published by their enemies as knowing facts against them, and determined to "brand the lion in his den," and hear the worst, let it hurt whom it would. So we set about in good earnest, to interview, if possible, all of those referred to by the enemies of these men, as having knowledge of them; and with one writing during each interview, we obtained the following as the result:

    "Having the names of Messrs. Bryant, Booth, and Reed, obtained from a published communication in the Cadillac News, of Michigan, about a year ago, by Reverend A. Marsh, of that place, who had received it from a brother reverend, one C. C. Thorn, of Manchester, New York, who claimed to have interviewed the above-named gentlemen, and obtained from them wonderful revelations about the Smith family, Cowdery, etc.; making Mr. Bryant to say that Smith was a "lazy, drinking fellow, loose in his habits every way," and Mr. Booth to say that their reputation was "bad," and that Oliver Cowdery was a "law pettifogger," and a "cat's-paw of the Smiths, to do their dirty work," etc.; and Mr. Reed to say, "they were too low for him to associate with," with a recitation of the black sheep story, etc.; all of whom were "astonished beyond measure" at the progress of this "imposture, which they thought would not amount to anything." All of which was sent to Reverend A. Marsh, of Cadillac, in order to counteract the influence which had been created in favor of the faith in that place, by the efforts of M. H. Bond and myself.

    "Believing then that the whole story was a trumped-up thing, I was determined to call on those gentlemen, and ascertain whether this pious Reverend told the truth about what they said or not.


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            343.


    "At about 10 a.m. we called at the house of Mr. Bryant, and knocked at the door, which was answered by a lady who gave her name as Mary Bryant. She gave us seats in the room where her husband, William Bryant, was sitting. He is now eighty-five years of age, tall, and lean in flesh, and, during our interview, sat in a stooping posture, with open mouth. His wife informed us that for the last few years his mind had been somewhat impaired. She has a good memory, is seventy-five years of age, intelligent, and seemingly a great talker. We announced that the purpose of our visit was to ascertain some facts from the old settlers with reference to the people known as Mormons, who used to live there, as it is understood to have been the home of the Smith family and others, at the time the Book of Mormon is alleged to have been discovered.

    "To this Mr. Bryant in a slow voice replied, "Yes, that big hill you saw coming along, is where they say Joe Smith got the plates; you must have seen it coming along. Well, you can't find out much from me; I don't know much about them myself; I have seen Joe Smith once or twice; they lived about five miles from where I did; was not personally acquainted with any of them -- never went to any of their meetings, and never heard one preach.'

    "What do you know about the character of the family? How were they for honesty? Were they industrious or lazy? We want to know their character among their old neighbors.

    "'Well, I don't know about that. I never saw them work; the people thought young Joe was a great liar.'

    "What made them think that?


     



    344.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "'They thought he lied when he said he found that gold bible.'

    "Before this what was thought of him, as to his telling the truth?

    "'I never heard anything before this.'

    "What else did he lie about? And how did he get the name of being such a great liar?

    "'The people said he lied about finding the plates; I don't know whether he lied about anything else; they were all a kind of a low, shiftless set.'

    "What do you mean by that?

    "'The people said they were awful poor, and poor managers. Joe was an illiterate fellow. If you come from Palmyra, you could have got Tucker's work there, and it would have told you all about them. I have read a great deal about them.'

    "Yes; we have seen Tucker's work, but there are too many big stories in that. Thinking people don't believe them; they ridicule them, and demand the facts; we wish to get some facts which we can stand by.

    "'I don't know anything myself: I wish I did. Have you been to see Mr. Reed? He lives up north of Manchester; he knows.'

    "Mrs. Bryant. -- 'My husband don't know anything about them; they did not live in the same neighborhood that we did, and he was not acquainted with them; he don't know anything.'

    "Well, were they drunkards?

    "Mr. Bryant -- 'Everybody drank whiskey in them times.'

    "Did you ever see Joe Smith drunk, or drinking?

    'No, I can't say that I did; I only saw him once or twice, when he came to the woolen mill where I worked.'


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            345.


    "Did you not see Joe drink sometime?

    "'N-o-e.'

    "Mrs. Bryant. -- 'He ought not to say anything, for he knows nothing about them; then it has been a long time ago.'

    "Have you stated now all you know about them?

    "Mr. Bryant. -- 'Yes; I never knew much about them, anyway.'

    "Did you know any of their associates -- Cowdery, Harris, or others?

    "'No, I never knew any of them.'

    "Mrs. Bryant. -- 'I knew Cowdery; Lyman Cowdery, I believe, was his name. They lived next door to us; they were low shacks, -- he was a lawyer, -- he was always on the wrong side of every case, they said.'

    "Did he ever teach school?

    "'No, not this one.'

    "Did you know any other one?

    'No, I only knew this one and his family; I know they borrowed my churn once, and when it came home, I had to scour it all over before I used it. My father owned the largest house there was in the country at that time.'

    "How were they about being honest, and telling the truth?

    "'I don't remember anything about that, now.'

    "Were they religious people -- pious?

    "'No; they did not belong to any church; I know they didn't, for there were only two churches there, the Baptist and Methodist, -- sometimes the Universalists preached there, -- they did not belong to either of those churches.'

    "Mr. Bryant. -- "He (Cowdery), was strong against


     



    346.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    the Masons; he helped to write Morgan's book, they said.'

    "What do you know, now, about the Smiths, or others; you have lived here about seventy-five years, have you not, Mrs. Bryant?

    "'Yes, I have lived here all my life; but I never knew anything about the Smiths myself; you will find it all in Tucker's work. I have read that. Have you been to see Mr. Booth? He lives right up here, on the road running south; he knows all about them, they say.'

    "Very good; we will call and see him. Thank you for your kindness in allowing us to trouble you.

    "'Oh, it is no trouble; I wish we knew more to tell you.'

    "We then called upon Mr. David Booth, an intelligent gentleman, hale and hearty, and upwards of seventy years of age -- and made known our business.

    "Mr. Booth promptly stated that he knew nothing of the Smiths, or their character; did not live in their neighborhood, and never saw either of them; did not know anything about them, or their book.

    "Did you know the Cowderys?

    "'I knew one -- the lawyer.'

    "What kind of a character was he?

    "'A low pettifogger.'

    "What do you mean by that?

    "'Why, he was not a regular lawyer, but took small cases and practiced before justices of the peace. We call them pettifoggers here.'

    "What was his given name?

    "'Lyman; he never taught school; guess he was no church member; he was a Mason; that was all there was to him. They called him "loose Cowdery."'


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            347.


    "What did they mean by that?

    "'Why, he would take small cases; would be on the wrong side, and pettifog before justices, was the reason, I suppose.'

    "Are you certain his name was Lyman? Wasn't it Oliver?

    "'It has been a long time ago. I think maybe his name was Oliver.'

    "Did he drink?

    "'Everybody drank then. I never saw Cowdery drink.'

    "Mr. Bryant, here in the village, told us that he was a strong anti-Mason, and helped to write Morgan's work.

    "'Oh, that is all nonsense; they don't know anything about it. Mr. Bryant hasn't been here more than thirty-five years; his wife was raised here -- is his second wife. Cowdery was a strong Mason, so they all said; that is all the religion he had.'

    "Do you know Reverend Thorn, a Presbyterian minister at Manchester?

    "'Yes; I know him.'

    "What kind of a fellow is he?

    "'He is a pretty sharp fellow, and will look after his bread and butter, you may depend on that.'

    "Did he ever interview you on this subject?

    "'No, sir; he never did.'

    "Did he not call to see what you knew about the Smiths and Cowderys about a year ago?

    "'No, he never did to my recollection.'

    "Did you know he had a statement of yours published in Michigan in regard to this, last year?

    ".No, sir; I never heard of it before.'


     



    348.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "Did you ever give him one to publish?

    "'I never did -- did not know he wanted one.'

    "He will look out for himself, will he?

    "'He will that; that is him.'

    "You have lived here all your life. Tell us of someone who can tell us all about the people we wish to learn about -- some of the old settlers.

    "'Squire Pierce and Mr. Reed live a few miles north from here, in the neighborhood where the Smiths lived; they know all about them they say. The Smiths never lived in this neighborhood.'

    "Do you know Thomas H. Taylor, of Manchester?

    "'Yes.'

    "What kind of a fellow is he?

    "'He is a pretty smart fellow; can do most anything he undertakes; he is a lawyer, and lectures sometimes.'

    "Mr. Booth, we were told, is a Free Methodist. His address is Shortsville, Ontario County, New York.

    "Following the directions of Mr. Booth, we re-passed the town of Manchester, and at one o'clock p.m., arrived at the house of Ezra Pierce, a very pleasant and hospitable New York farmer, quite well- informed in the political history of the country, especially on the Democratic side. Approaching the subject of the desired interview to him, he quickly answered by saying:

    "'Well, gentlemen, I must first ask you a question; because I went on to give my statement to some parties once, and as it did not suit them, they got mad and began to abuse and insult me; said that I lied about it. Let me ask: Are you Mormons?'

    E. L. -- I am a lawyer, myself; this other gentleman can speak for himself. We don't propose to be


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            349.


    anything, especially during this interview; we are here to try to find out some facts, and we don't care who they hit; it is facts that we are after, and you may be sure there will be no abuse, no matter which side they are on.

    "'All right; that's fair; go ahead.'

    "Were you acquainted with the Smith family?

    "'Oh, yes; I pulled sticks with Joe for a gallon of brandy once at a log rolling; he was about my age. I was born in 1806. I lived about three miles from the Smiths. Was not very well acquainted with them; but knew them when I saw them. I knew young Joe, who claimed to have found the plates, and old Joe, his father.'

    "Did young Joe drink?

    "'Everybody drank them times.'

    "Did you ever see young Joe drink?

    "'No, I never did; it was customary in those early days for everybody to drink, more or less. They would have it at huskings, and in the harvest field, and places of gathering; the Smiths did not drink more than others.'

    "What about Joe's learning?

    "'I know that he was ignorant; and he knew no more about hieroglyphics than that stove,' pointing to the stove in the room.

    "Well; go on and state what kind of a family they were -- all about them.

    "'They were poor, and got along by working by the day; the old man had a farm up there, and a log house upon it. The old man Smith and Hyrum were coopers; I never went to the same school that the boys did -- they dug for money sometimes; young Joe, he had a stone that he could look through and see where


     



    350.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    the money was; there were a good many others who dug with them, and Joe used to play all kinds of tricks upon them.'

    "Who said they dug for money?

    "'Oh, I have heard it lots of times. If my brother was living, he could tell you all about it.'

    "Others dug besides the Smiths, did they?

    "'Yes; there were others who dug; but I always heard that the Smiths dug the most; one of the Chase's, a young lady, had a stone which she claimed she could look through and see money buried.'

    "Did anybody dig for her?

    "'Yes; I guess they did. They said so.'

    "Then young Joe had some opposition in the seeing-money business?

    "'That is what everybody said.'

    "Who was this Miss Chase? Where does she live?

    "'She is dead now; she was a sister to Abel Chase, who lives upon the Palmyra Road. Have you seen him? He will know all about this. He has been in the cave with the Smiths where the sheep bones were found -- people used to think they were making counterfeit money.'

    "Did you ever see any of it?

    "'No.'

    "Did any of the neighbors?

    "'No; I never heard any say they did.'

    "Did anyone ever catch them trying to pass counterfeit money?

    "'No; oh! I don't say they made any; it was only talked around.'

    "Who talked it; their friends or enemies, and when was it talked?


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            351.


    "'Well; they were not their friends, of course; I never heard it while they lived here; after they went to Kirtland, Ohio, people were talking it.'

    "Young lady, a daughter of Mr. Pierce:

    "'The sheets, the sheets, Pa; what was it about the sheets? Ma said old Mr. Smith come here with the sheets -- and she told him to leave. How was it?' (looking to other members of the house).

    "The sheets; what kind of sheets? (I began to think of ghosts and hobgoblins).

    "'The sheets, or the leaves, he was carrying around in an old sack, or something.'

    "Our feelings were relieved somewhat when we learned, on further inquiry, that Mr. Smith had called upon them when the Book of Mormon was first published, with a few unbound volumes for sale, and was ordered out of the house by "Ma;" nothing like ghosts being connected with the event.

    "Squire, did you really think they were in the counterfeit money business?

    "'No; I never thought they did that.'

    "Tell us about the cave you spoke of.

    "'The cave is over there in the hill now -- a large cave.'

    "In what hill? The hill they call "Mormon" Hill?

    "'No; it is about a mile from that; but what are you so particular about it for?'

    "We want to go and see it -- we want to see the thing itself. Now you have been there; give us the description, while we write it down, so that we can find it.

    "'No; I never saw it; besides it is all caved in now, so you could not see anything. There is no cave there now, it is all fallen in.'


     



    352.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "The young lady. -- 'Well, why are you so particular for, anyway; what good will it do?'

    "We wish to know just how much truth there is to these stories; and get some facts that we can stand on.

    Y. L. -- "But what good will it do?'

    "Just this; there have been a great many stories told about these people, and the finding of the plates; some believe there is truth in the stories, and some believe they are lies. We are investigating the matter to satisfy ourselves what there is in it.

    "Y. L. -- 'Now, you had better turn your backs upon it, and let it go; that is the way to do, there is no truth in it.'

    "That is just the thing at issue. Some say there is truth in it, some say there isn't. It is right to investigate and prove all things; and we wish to find what there is in this.

    "Y. L. -- 'But what good will it do to find out the truth about the Book of Mormon?'

    "If it is what it claims to be, we wish to know it; if false, we wish evidence to prove that. "Y. L. -- 'What; you spending your time trying to find out about that? If I only knew where your wives are, I would write to them and let them know just what you are doing.'

    "All right; do so. (Here we gave our names and addresses).

    "Did you ever read that book?

    "Y. L. -- 'No; I never saw one.'

    "Well, I have; and there is something strikingly strange about it. It is certain that no one, or multitude of men, ever possessed sufficient inventive genius to produce it, or one similar to it, and have it so perfect


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            353.


    in its doctrinal teachings, history and general makeup, as to baffle the skill of learned critics to detect the error and deceptions. This book bids defiance to the whole learned world to prove it false; did you ever think of that?

    "Y. L. -- 'No; but what good will it do, if it is true?'

    "If really true; Joseph Smith obtained the plates, and men are telling falsehoods about him; and there has been a divine communication from heaven in our own day, which is contrary to the whole of the traditionary religious belief of the age. It unites with the testimony given in the Bible concerning Jesus being the Christ; and that he is indeed, the Redeemer of the world; hence, another witness testifying in favor of His mission and work. Quite a necessary thing, when we take into consideration the unbelief and skepticism there is in the world at the present time, and it is on the increase. Then it is very gratifying and instructive to know about the ancient inhabitants of this country, their origin, habits of life, form of government, laws and religion.

    "Y. L. -- 'But does this book teach the same as the Bible -- our Bible?'

    "The teachings of the two books are the same so far as religious duties and life are concerned. Besides it is urged that many prophecies of the Bible refer to the coming forth of this book, and we confess that we are not enabled to explain satisfactorily the passages referred to, in any other light.

    "Y. L. -- 'Why, what are some of them? I never heard of that before.'

    "The twenty-ninth chapter of Isaiah is one directly in point, where the prophet speaks with reference to a


     



    354.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    sealed book coming forth, the words of which were to be delivered to a learned man, but he could not be able to read them, and the book itself was to be delivered to an unlearned man, and he would be enabled to read it. Also the stick of Joseph in the land of Ephraim, recorded in the thirty-seventh chapter of Ezekiel. It is interpreted by the learned that the stick of Judah, there mentioned is the Bible; and the Latter-day Saints hold the stick of Joseph referred to, is the Book of Mormon. Then in the tenth of John, where Jesus says: 'Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold,' etc. relates to Israelitish people who had come to this continent, and were unknown to the Jews, but known to Jesus. It is held, too, that the fourteenth chapter of the book of Revelations refers to this event, where John saw an angel flying through the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel to preach to all people, just previous to the hour of God's judgment; and many other passages. Did you never read them?

    "Y. L. -- 'No; write some of them down, and I will examine them.' (Here we wrote down some references.)

    "Y. L. -- 'Doesn't this book teach polygamy?'

    "Oh, no; it is much more outspoken and emphatic against that sin than the Bible (quoting a passage from the Book of Jacob). The people in Utah, known as Mormons, treat it as you would a last year's almanac. They say it was good in its time, but they have outgrown it.

    "Y. L .-- 'Are there any other people who believe in that book?'

    "Yes, the Latter-day Saints, who may be found in almost every State and Territory in the Union, and


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            355.


    other parts of the world. An intelligent class of people, who have taken pains to examine all sides relating to this subject, and have become convinced that there is truth in it. They do not believe in going to Utah; neither are they more like them in faith and doctrine than are the Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. They have a publishing house at Plano, Illinois, about fifty-six miles from Chicago, and are an orderly class of people. It was very easy for people in the days of Jesus to say that He was an impostor -- was possessed of the devil -- born of fornication -- a glutton and a wine bibber; an enemy of mankind generally, but He was true, and the Christ just the same. Sensible people examined into the facts, then, relating to Him, and his doctrine, and the foolish were moved by gossip, stories and popular rumor, until they raised their hands and rejected the best friend of the human race. It is just as easy for people to cry in this age "old Joe Smith -- Gold Bible -- Money digger, Impostor," etc. But what are the facts in the case? That is what we wish to know. I am a Latter-day Saint minister myself, not of choice, but from conviction, by force of evidence adduced on that side of the question; I expect to continue to be one until convinced that it is not right, and it will take something more than stories to do it.

    "The Squire. -- 'Well, if he believes that Joe Smith was a prophet, that's enough; you can't do anything with him. I never knew one to change yet.'

    "No, Squire, what do you know about it?

    "'I don't know anything about it.'

    "Now, I am ready to affirm that the Book of Mormon is a work of divine authenticity, and that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God; and I say that I can


     



    356.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    prove it from the Bible and other evidences, and am willing to undertake to do it right here, or in Palmyra, or Manchester, where it is admitted the thing first started.

    "Y. L. -- 'Why, I don't believe you would be safe to do that here.'

    "You don't? Have you such a class of people here, that they will break the laws of the country, and refuse liberty of speech and conscience? Don't dare to speak my sentiments in a country in which I have followed the flag, and bore arms for its defense, in order to continue a perpetual union? A country in which every ounce of powder and pound of lead is pledged to maintain human rights and religious equality and freedom?"

    "'Oh, I guess they would let you, too; I will take that back. It is right to let all have the privilege of speaking their minds.'

    "Of course, Squire, I should not expect you to believe in this, for it is difficult for anyone to believe a matter without evidence; and you say you never heard one of them preach; never attended their meetings; never read one of their books, and have read a great many things written against them. Now would any of us have ever believed in Jesus if we had never read anything that he and the apostles said; never read any of their books; but just took the stories their enemies circulated about them -- read the books put out by the pretended pious Jews against them? And don't you know that it is from that standpoint that the Jews reject Jesus and the teachings of the apostles, unto this day? They say they have hundreds of witnesses to one that Jesus was a lawbreaker, and a deceiver; and the apostles false witnesses.


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            357.


    "'Yes, that is true.'

    "Y. L. -- 'Can you speak in tongues and prophesy?'

    "Suppose I can't, what has that to do with the principle? Jesus says, "These signs shall follow them that believe.' It is in the Bible. I am not responsible for it.

    "'But can you speak in tongues? That is my question.'

    "I have heard a great many of the Saints speak in tongues and interpret. Have heard them speak in prophecy, and have seen the sick healed many times.

    "'But can you prophesy and speak in tongues?'

    "Well, what would you think, if I was to tell you that I can?

    "'Why, I should say you was crazy.'

    "That is just what I thought.

    "'We have institutions in which ministers are educated now, and we don't need such things.'

    "Yes, I know there are a good many who seem to think they know more than Paul and Peter did about Christ and his doctrine: have gone on to invent creeds and systems; but did you never think that this is the greatest evil of the age--the very thing that keeps men in fetters, ignorance and superstition. Here is a Roman Catholic institution, that educates its priests to teach Catholicism; and after they go through the training, they know nothing else; hence, start out in their little groove to make Catholics. They do not know anything else, nor will they listen to others, in order that they may become informed. It is the abominable system of training is the difficulty. Take the Methodist ministers, or Baptist, or Episcopalian, or Quakers, or Disciples, or Adventists, or others; and each has to


     



    358.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    pass through their respective institutions of training; and when through, they start out, not to preach what is in the Bible, for many of them are forbidden to talk doctrine, but to proselyte to their peculiar creeds; fortify and build them up. One to teach sprinkling for baptism; another pouring, or immersion; another no baptism at all, or only that of the Spirit; one that you must keep Sunday, and others, Saturday; another that you will be saved by works; another by faith and grace, without works; one sprinkles infants, and others don't; all owing to what school he was educated in. If any courageous spirit endeavors to break away from the creed, they will whip him into the traces, or throw him out. There is no genuine Christian unity and love between them, but each rejoices at the other's downfall, for the sake of the advantage; not because it is according to the Bible, but according to the Creed.

    "'Well, I guess there is a good deal of truth in that.'

    "In this age of the conflict of ideas and investigation, people are getting tired of myths, and are digging deep and searching for facts in religion as well as everything else. If religion is a truth, the facts should show it; if false, the world ought to know that. We believe in discussion -- 'proving all things, and holding fast that which is good.' Hearing everybody; investigating everything possible. But we must go.

    "Mr. Pierce having referred us to Mr. Reed, Orlando Saunders, and Abel Chase, we took leave of him and his intelligent family, and called next at the residence of Mr. Orin Reed.

    "He was at his home, doing some work about the barn. He is a gentleman of about seventy years of age,


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            359.


    hard of hearing, and of pleasant and intelligent countenance. Breaking the object of our call to him, he readily informed us that he knew nothing whatever in regard to the character of Joseph Smith, or his family.

    "Mr. Reed; were you not acquainted with the Smith family, or some of those early connected with them?

    "'No, I was not. I lived in the town of Farmington when the Smiths lived here. I knew nothing about any of them; was not personally acquainted with them, and never heard any of them preach, nor never attended any of their meetings. I have seen Hyrum Smith. He bought a piece of land near here, and lived on it sometime after the others left; but I don't know anything against him.'

    "We were given your name by a number of persons, who claimed that you did know all about them, Mr. Reed.

    "'Is that so? Well, they are mistaken; I don't know anything about it. I think Mr. Orlando Saunders, living up on the road to Palmyra, will know more about that people than anyone around here. He was better acquainted with them; or lived right by them, and had a better opportunity of knowing them.'

    "Yes, we have his name already; but have not seen him yet. Do you know Mr. Thorn, the Presbyterian minister at Manchester, over here?

    "'Yes, I know him slightly.'

    "Did you not make a statement to him in regard to the character of these men; that they were low persons, and not good associates, or something of the kind?

    "'I never did.'


     



    360.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "Did he call on you to find out what you knew about it?

    "'No, sir, he never did; at least he never let me know anything about it, if he did.'

    "Did you ever see a statement he sent to Michigan, last year, and had published, purporting to be what you and others knew about the Smiths and Cowderys?

    "'No, I never did; did not know that one was ever published before.'

    "You think we can find out about these persons from Mr. Saunders, then, Mr. Reed?

    'Yes; he is more likely to know than anyone round here.'

    "Leaving Mr. Reed, we at once drove to the house of Mr. Orlando Saunders, and found that gentleman, with his wife and two sons, at supper. Mr. Saunders is a man seventy-eight years old, in April 1881; a fair type of the intelligent New York farmer; seemingly well-to-do in this world's goods, and quite active for a man of his years; and withal, has an honest and thoughtful face.

    "Entering upon conversation with reference to our business, Mr. Saunders at once said:

    "'Well, you have come to a poor place to find out anything. I don't know anything against these men, myself.' (Evidently judging that we wanted to get something against them, only.)

    "Were you acquainted with them, Mr. Saunders?

    "'Yes, sir; I knew all of the Smith family well; there were six boys; Alvin, Hyrum, Joseph, Harrison, William, and Carlos, and there were two girls; the old man was a cooper; they have all worked for me many a day; they were very good people; Young Joe, (as we called him then), has worked for me, and he was a good


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            361.


    worker; they all were. I did not consider them good managers about business, but they were poor people; the old man had a large family.'

    "In what respect did they differ from other people, if at all?

    "'I never noticed that they were different from other neighbors; they were the best family in the neighborhood in case of sickness; one was at my house nearly all the time when my father died; I always thought them honest; they were owing me some money when they left here; that is, the old man and Hyrum did, and Martin Harris. One of them came back in about a year and paid me.'

    "How were they as to habits of drinking and getting drunk?

    "'Everybody drank a little in those days, and the Smiths with the rest; they never got drunk to my knowledge.'

    "What kind of a man was Martin Harris?

    "'He was an honorable man. Martin Harris was one of the first men of the town.'

    "How well did you know young Joseph Smith?

    "'Oh! just as well as one could very well; he has worked for me many- a-time, and been about my place a great deal. He stopped with me many-a-time, when through here, after they went west to Kirtland; he was always a gentleman when about my place.'

    "What did you know about his finding that book, or the plates in the hill over here?

    "'He always claimed that he saw the angel and received the book; but I don't know anything about it. Have seen it, but never read it as I know of; didn't care anything about it.'


     



    362.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "Well; you seem to differ a little from a good many of the stories told about these people.

    "'I have told you just what I know about them, and you will have to go somewhere else for a different story.'

    "Mr. Saunders giving us the directions to the house of Abel Chase, we next called upon him and ascertained the following:

    "Mr. Chase. -- 'I am sixty-seven years old. Knew the Smiths; the old man was a cooper. I was young and don't remember only general character. They were poorly educated, ignorant and superstitious; were kind of shiftless, but would do a good day's work. They used to call Joe, "Lobby Joe." He got a singular-looking stone, which was dug up out of my father's well; it belonged to my brother Willard, and he could never get it. His mother, old Mrs. Smith, got the stone from mother.'

    "How do you know Joe ever had it?

    "'Oh, I don't know that; but my brother could never get it back.'

    "Your sister had a stone she could look through and see things, so they have told us; did you ever see that, Mr. Chase?

    "'Yes, I have seen it; but that was not the one that old Mrs. Smith got.'

    "Well; could you see things through that?

    "'I could not; it was a dark-looking stone; it was a peculiar stone.'

    "Do you really think your sister could see things by looking through that stone, Mr. Chase?

    "'Well, she claimed to; and I must say there was something strange about it.'


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            363.


    "Where is your sister now?

    "'She is not living now: my brother Willard is dead, also. He would know more than I do about those things.'

    "How did the stone look, you say Mrs. Smith got?

    "'I don't know; I never saw that.'

    "How do you know she got it?

    "'They said she did; I was young, and don't remember myself.'

    "Did you ever see the Smiths dig for money; or did you ever see the cave where they say they met at?

    "'No. I never saw them dig, myself; I never saw the cave.'

    "Well; you were a young man then, how did it come you lived so near, and never saw them do these things?

    "'I was young, and never went where they were. Don't know anything about it but what I have heard. If you will see Mr. Gilbert at Palmyra, he can tell you more about it than any person else; he knows it all, and has been getting everything he could for years to publish against them; he was in with Tucker in getting out Tucker's work.'

    "All right, Mr. Chase, we will see him this evening if possible. Good day, sir. Much obliged for the trouble.

    "'Oh! it is no trouble; I only wish I could tell you more.'

    "Early in the evening we called upon Mr. John H. Gilbert, at his residence, and made known our desire for an interview, etc. He seemed quite free to give us all the information he had upon the subject,


     



    364.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    and said he had been for the past forty-five or fifty years doing all he could to find out what he could about the Smiths and Book of Mormon. He is a man seventy-nine years of age, and quite active even in this time of life.

    "What did you know about the Smiths, Mr. Gilbert.

    "'I knew nothing myself; have seen Joseph Smith a few times, but not acquainted with him. Saw Hyrum quite often. I am the party that set the type from the original manuscript for the Book of Mormon. They translated it in a cave. I would know that manuscript today if I should see it. The most of it was in Oliver Cowdery's handwriting. Some in Joseph's wife's; a small part though. Hyrum Smith always brought the manuscript to the office; he would have it under his coat, and all buttoned up as carefully as though it was so much gold. He said at the time it was translated from plates by the power of God, and they were very particular about it. We had a great deal of trouble with it. It was not punctuated at all. They did not know anything about punctuation, and we had to do that ourselves.'

    "Well; did you change any part of it when you were setting the type?

    "'No, sir; we never changed it at all.'

    "Why did you not change it and correct it?

    "'Because they would not allow us to; they were very particular about that. We never changed it in the least. Oh, well there might have been one or two words that I changed the spelling of; I believe I did change the spelling of one, and perhaps two, but no more.'


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            365.


    "Did you set all of the type, or did someone help you?

    "'I did the whole of it myself, and helped to read the proof, too; there was no one who worked at that but myself. Did you ever see one of the first copies? I have one here that was never bound. Mr. Grandin, the printer, gave it to me. If you ever saw a Book of Mormon you will see that they changed it afterwards.'

    "They did! Well, let us see your copy; that is a good point. How is it changed now?

    "'I will show you,' (bringing out his copy).

    "'Here on the title page it says,' (reading)

    "'Joseph Smith, Jr., author and proprietor.' Afterwards, in getting out other editions they left that out, and only claimed that Joseph Smith translated it.'

    "Well, did they claim anything else than that he was the translator when they brought the manuscript to you?

    "'Oh, no; they claimed that he was translating it by means of some instruments he got at the same time he did the plates, and that the Lord helped him.'

    "Was he educated, do you know?

    "'Oh, not at all then; but I understand that afterwards he made great advancement, and was quite a scholar and orator.'

    "How do you account for the production of the Book of Mormon, Mr. Gilbert, then, if Joseph Smith was so illiterate?

    "'Well, that is the difficult question. It must have been from the Spaulding romance -- you have heard of that, I suppose. The parties here then never could have been the authors of it, certainly. I have been for the last forty-five or fifty years trying to get


     



    366.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    the key to that thing; but we have never been able to make the connecting yet. For some years past I have been corresponding with a person in Salt Lake, by the name of Cobb, who is getting out a work against the Mormons; but we have never been able to find what we wanted.'

    If you could only connect Sidney Rigdon with Smith some way, you could get up a theory? "Yes; that is just where the trouble lies; the manuscript was put in our hands in August 1829, and all printed by March 1830, and we cannot find that Rigdon was ever about here, or in this state, until sometime in the fall of 1830. But I think I have got a way out of the difficulty now. A fellow that used to be here, by the name of Saunders, Lorenzo Saunders, was back here some time ago, and I was asking him about it. At first he said he did not remember of ever seeing Rigdon until after 1830 sometime; but after studying it over awhile, he said it seemed to him that one time he was over to Smith's, and that there was a stranger there he never saw before, and that they said it was Rigdon. I told him about Cobb, of Utah, and asked him if he would send Cobb his affidavit that he saw Rigdon before the book was published, if he (Cobb), would write to him; he finally said he would, and I wrote to Cobb about it, and gave Saunders' address, and after a long time, I got a letter from him, saying he had written three letters to Saunders, and could get no answer. I then sat down and wrote Saunders a letter myself, reminding him of his promise, and wrote to Cobb also about it; and after a long time Cobb wrote me again, that Saunders had written to him; but I have never learned how satisfactory


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            367.


    it was, or whether he made the affidavit or not.'

    "Is that Saunders a brother of the Saunders living down here, Orlando Saunders? "'Yes, sir: they are brothers.'

    "Is he older or younger?

    "'Younger; about fifteen years younger.'

    "Then he must have been quite young before the Book of Mormon was published?

    "'Yes, he was young.'

    "This Saunders down here don't talk like a great many people; he seems to think the Smiths were very good people; we have been there today. "Oh, I don't think the Smiths were as bad as people let on for. Now Tucker, in his work, told too many big things; nobody could believe his stories.'

    "Did the Smiths ever dig for money?

    "'Yes; I can tell you where you can find persons who know all about that; can take you to the very place.'

    "Can you? All right, give us their names.

    "'The Jackaway boys -- two old bachelors, and their sister, an old maid, live together, right up the street going north, near the north part of the town; they can tell you all about it, and show you the very places where they dug.'

    "What will you take for your copy of the Book of Mormon; or will you sell it?

    "'Yes, I will sell it.'

    "How much for it?

    "'I will take five hundred dollars for it, and no less; I have known them to sell for more than that.'

    "Well, I am not buying at those figures, thank you.

    "What kind of a man was Martin Harris?


     



    368.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "'He was a very honest farmer, but very superstitious.'

    "What was he before his name was connected with the Book of Mormon?

    "'Not anything, I believe; he was a kind of skeptic.'

    "What do you mean by his being superstitious? Was he religious?

    "'Well, I don't know about that; but he pretended to see things.'

    "What do you think of the Book of Mormon, as a book; you are well-posted in it?

    "'Oh, there is nothing taught in the book but what is good; there is no denying that; it is the claim of being from God that I strike at.'

    "Well, is it any more wonderful than that God gave the Bible?

    "'No, not a bit; and there is a good deal more evidence to show that that is divine than there is for some of the books in the Bible. Why, it is all nonsense to think that Moses wrote some of the books attributed to him, in the Bible.'

    "Then you don't believe the 'fish story,' either, Mr. Gilbert?

    "'No; nor that Jonah swallowed the whale.'

    "How about Sampson catching the three hundred foxes, and the firebrands?

    "'Yes, that is a good one; you fellows will do.'

    "Much obliged, Mr. Gilbert.

    "'You are quite welcome. I wish I could give you more than I have.'

    "Acting upon Mr. Gilbert's advice, we at once called upon the Jackways, and found the older of the


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            369.


    boys and the sister, ready to talk of what they knew. They had Tucker's work on the small table by, which they offered to sell us for three dollars, and then we could read for ourselves; but being quite familiar with its weaknesses, we declined to purchase at the price.

    "The conversation upon the main topic was as follows:

    "What is your age?

    "'I will be sixty-six years old on my next birthday,' said Mr. Jackway. (The lady did not answer.)

    "How far did you live from town at the time the Smiths, and those of their comrades, were in this country?

    "'One-half mile south of Palmyra.'

    "Were you acquainted with Joseph Smith and his early followers?

    "'Yes, I knew them; saw them a many-a-time -- old Joe and young Joe.'

    "How far did you live from them?

    "'It was about a mile.'

    "You know about their digging for money, so Mr. Gilbert said; he sent us to you?

    "'Oh, yes. I can show you the places now; there are three places over there where they dug.'

    "Well, we want to see them. Did you help them dig?

    "'No, I never helped them.'

    "Well, you saw them digging?

    "'No, I never saw them digging.'

    "How do you know they dug the holes you refer to?

    "'I don't know they dug them; but the holes are there.'

    "Did anybody else dig for money at that time there?


     



    370.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "'I believe there were some others that dug; but I did not see them.'

    "Do you know any of them?

    "'I only know one now; he lives up at Canandaigua.'

    (Mr. Jackway gave us the name, but for some cause we fail to find it in our notes.) "What do you know about the Smiths' character?

    "'I don't know much about that.'

    "Would they steal, get drunk, etc.?

    "'Don't know anything about their stealing. Joe and his father got drunk once.'

    "Where was that?

    "'It was in the hayfield; Joe and his father wrestled, and Joe threw the old man down, and he cried.'

    "What did he cry for?

    "'Because Joe was the best man I guess.'

    "What did they drink to make them drunk?

    "'They drank cider.'

    "Got drunk so they could not walk, on cider, did they?

    "'No; they could walk, but they cut up and acted funny.'

    :"Did you ever see them drink, or drunk, any other time?

    "'No; not as I remember.'

    "What kind of a woman was the old lady Smith?

    "'I don't know; I never was at the house. She was kind in sickness.'

    "Quite a number here in town, today, have told us it was two and a half to three miles from Palmyra to where the Smiths lived; how is that?


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            371.


    "'Yes; it was about three miles.'

    (How Jackway lived within half a mile of town and only a mile from them he did not explain.)

    "Where was Joe when he was translating his book?

    "'At home; it was translated in the farmhouse.'

    "Mr. Gilbert, across here, said it was done in a cave; now you don't agree? What does Tucker say? (reading Tucker).

    "'They all differ. Now, Tucker has a statement from Willard Chase in his book, and Chase said Tucker never called on him at all to find out what he knew.'

    "Lady. -- 'Yes; I have heard Willard Chase say Tucker never even asked him for what he knew, and Chase lived next door to him, too. Chase is dead now.'

    "Well; did you ever see Hulbert or Howe, that published works?

    "'Yes; Hulbert came around first, I believe, soon after the thing started, and they had gone to Kirtland, Ohio, trying to find things against them; and there have been a good many around trying to connect Sidney Rigdon with them.'

    "What kind of men were Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery?

    "'Harris was an industrious, honest man; lived north here, two miles. The Cowderys were as good as the general run of people. Have you seen Dr. Stafford? He lives at Rochester. His father, William Stafford, is the one that furnished the `black sheep' Tucker tells about there.'

    "He is? Well; do you know about that?

    "'No; only what Tucker says there.'


     



    372.                             COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                           


    "Taking leave of the Jackways, in due time we called upon Dr. John Stafford, at Rochester, New York. He is now a retired physician, being too aged and infirm to practice. Answering a question as to the character of Joseph Smith, he said:

    "'He was a real clever, jovial boy. What Tucker said about them was false, absolutely. My father, William Stafford, was never connected with them in any way. The Smiths, with others, were digging for money before Joe got the plates. My father had a stone, which some thought they could look through; and old Mrs. Smith came there after it one day, but never got it. Saw them digging one time for money; (this was three or four years before the Book of Mormon was found), the Smiths and others. The old man and Hyrum were there I think, but Joseph was not there. The neighbors used to claim Sally Chase could look at a stone she had, and see money. Willard Chase used to dig when she found where the money was. Don't know as anybody ever found any money.'

    "What was the character of Smith, as to his drinking?

    "'It was common then for everybody to drink, and to have drink in the field; one time Joe, while working for someone after he was married, drank too much boiled cider. He came in with his shirt torn; his wife felt bad about it, and when they went home, she put her shawl on him.'

    "Had he been fighting and drunk?

    "'No; he had been scuffling with some of the boys. Never saw him fight; have known him to scuffle; would do a fair day's work if hired out to a man; but were poor managers.'


     



                                COMPENDIUM  OF  EVIDENCE.                            373.


    "What about that black sheep your father let them have?

    "'I have heard that story, but don't think my father was there at the time they say Smith got the sheep. I don't know anything about it.'